[Solved] Problems reconciling Clements 2024 to Avilist 2025

Hi Dave,

Thanks for posting.

Let me ask some clarifying questions first:

1. I assume you are at the latest version of v7.0 - v7.0 Build 25. Or at least at some build of V7.0. Let me know if not.
2. Did you complete the Reconcile process? Or not complete yet?
3. And you have now generated the Reconcile Report. Please attach the report in a reply - or send it to me in an email. support@BirdersDiary.com

ANDEAN DUCK

• Any sightings you had of a subspecies of Andean Duck automatically got xfer'd to AviList. Nothing to reconcile.
• Any sightings at the species level of Andean Duck needed to be reconciled to one of the two Ruddy Duck ssp or at the species level of Ruddy Duck. Any such sightings required your effort in the Reconcile wizard.

Posted by: @magmatic

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An example of a problem:
The reconciliation report says:
Thing that changed Clements 2024:
Andean Duck (ferruginea)
Oxyura ferruginea ferruginea

Under What changed?, it says:
Same Thing found in new taxonomy: 'Ruddy Duck ferruginea' - 'Oxyura jamaicensis ferruginea'.
Common Name changed to 'Ruddy Duck ferruginea'.
Scientific Name changed to 'Oxyura jamaicensis ferruginea'.
Not reconciled.

This is correct and accurate. It is simply stating bullet one above. It got moved, not reconciled by you. It is an auto-match from ssp to ssp.

Posted by: @magmatic

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And so my sighting stayed Andean Duck (ferruginea). Why? Has the common name in the taxonomy changed or not? If it did, then why did Reconcile not change it?

No. Viewing that sighting with Clements 2024 selected will show "Andean Duck (ferruginea)"; but, when viewing that sighting with only AviList 2025 selected, it will show as "Rudy Duck ferruginea".

Posted by: @magmatic

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Even worse, neither Andean Duck (ferruginea) nor Ruddy Duck shows in a life list report using Avilist. Andean Duck (ferruginea) does show in a report using Clements 2024.

A life list report will show the first sighting of a species/subspecies. So, on an AviList Life List report, your first sighting of a Ruddy Duck should indeed be showing up. If you are not seeing this, post screenshots of your report setup and your Ruddy Duck sightings in View/Edit Sightings.

I am going to stop here and pick up with the rest in another reply, so that I can get this response out to you.

More in a bit...

continuing...

YELLOW WARBLER...

Posted by: @magmatic

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The report also says I lost
Setophaga aestiva
Northern Yellow Warbler

And yet, it says
Internal Thing changed.
Not reconciled.

But sure enough, a life list using Avilist does not show it. But it said it didn't reconcile it, so why not?

How do I get it back?

In the Reconcile window, Northern Yellow Warbler did show on the top, and there are many sightings to reconcile, but there is nothing in Probable choices below to reconcile it to. Why not?

I will need to see the actual report and data on this one Dave.

There should be no "Northern Yellow Warbler" in either Clements 2024 nor Avilist.

What I can say, is that this Reconcile has been done many hundreds of times since last year and no issues have been reported along these lines. So, I think this will be resolved with a bit of investigation. It can be a complicated topic, and I worked hard in the last several releases to make this as straightforward as possible.

So - there is likely just some simple confusion to straighten out here to clear things up on this.

SPUHS

Posted by: @magmatic

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Also, when I hit Reconcile for a spuh, I do not get a list in Probable Choices at the bottom. Do I have to manually add the spuh to the taxonomy? I thought it would do that automatically.

There are two convenience buttons here for you to use. You would have gotten the little yellow popup Tip windows explaining each the first time.

On the first of two Reconcile windows, there is a SPUHs and SLASHes button. Use that to auto-move all Spuhs/Slashes/etc. 

Or on the 2nd of two windows, there is a button for just moving that particular SPUH's Sightings over to AviList.

But - just use the button on the first window to move all Spuhs and Slashes. Much easier.

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Let's start here and I will await your updates. Thanks.

SUMMARY

Hi again Dave,

Please note that your Clements Sightings are still available and visible when using Clements for reports and life list counts. 

Conversely, using AviList will show the new Sightings; use AviList going forward for everything:

• Sightings Entry
• Sightings Editing
• Reports
• etc. 

This may be tripping you up when looking at sightings or running reports. Make sure you are using AviList 2025 instead of Clements 2024. I find that this is usually the problem.

Please let me know. I look forward to your response.

Posted by: @magmatic

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I am on 7.0.25.

I still have some reconciling left to do, if that is what you are getting at. There are still items in the upper window.

I am sending the report by email.

I get it. This was lump. I missed that in the AI taxonomic gobblygook.

Oxyura ferruginea (Andean Duck) has been lumped into Oxyura jamaicensis (Ruddy Duck). The former is now called Rudy Duck ferruginea.

Hi Dave,

Sorry for the confusion on this. It is not a trivial subject.

Thanks for sending the report. That makes things clearer and easy to explain. That is why I created that report: to answer questions that users may have and solve potential issues.

And thanks for confirming your version of Birder's Diary and where you are in the Reconcile process. That also helps me.

• I think the Andean/Ruddy Duck issue is cleared up now; lump vs split.
• Regarding the Yellow Warbler, from looking at the report, it appears that you may have already manually split your Yellow Warbler and renamed it in Clements 2024. That is not a problem; but that explains my confusion earlier on the name. I don't see any problems here yet.
  I believe you just have yet to Reconcile your sightings for your "Northern Yellow Warbler". 
  Let me know if you think I got this wrong.
  • The reason there are no choices to reconcile against is likely because of your manual split that I suspect you made here. In that case, simply choose the correct taxon to move the sightings to in the dropdown available.
• The Hooded Crow was a lump also; and I suspect this caused your confusion.
• Please see above, in previous reply, for info on moving SPUHs and SLASHes.

Also, please note that in your C:\Birder's Diary\Taxonomy Downloads\ directory, there is a CSV file (opened with any spreadsheet program such as Excel) that shows the matches between Clements 2024 and AviList 2025. The file name is "C:\Birder's Diary\Taxonomy Downloads\Clements2024-to-Avilist2025.csv". This can be very helpful in making matches. Also try the new AI; it can be very helpful.

I think you are moving forward now. But don't hesitate to let me know if you have any further questions. 

Thanks.

On Northern Yellow Warbler. Did I do a manual split? Umm. Maybe. But I don't see evidence of it.

I once saw a strange bird and the best I could do with it was make it an unlikely subspecies of Mangrove Warbler. I should not have had to add that to the taxonomy. I called it first fall female of Yellow Warbler (Golden) gundlachi, 9/2/2022. This was Setophaga petechia gundlachi, now called Mangrove Warbler gundlachi.

But this is not Yellow Warbler, so that should be irrelevant.

In any event, Reconcile does not pick up that sighting as one that needs reconciling. But I think it should. It's not Yellow Warbler (Golden) gundlachi anymore. It has remained Yellow Warbler (Golden) gundlachi in my database.

I did the reconciling for Northern Yellow Warbler to American Yellow Warbler, and all is fine now, I guess, on that.

My Hooded Crow now shows as Hooded Crow (Hooded) cornix. Seems like that should be Carrion Crow cornix. Why does it not show as that?

I did try the AI prompts, but the response probably just confused me.

But, that Clements 2024 and AviList 2025 csv is a great thing. A non-documented feature?

Hi Dave,

Posted by: @magmatic

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On Northern Yellow Warbler. Did I do a manual split? Umm. Maybe. But I don't see evidence of it.

I once saw a strange bird and the best I could do with it was make it an unlikely subspecies of Mangrove Warbler. I should not have had to add that to the taxonomy. I called it first fall female of Yellow Warbler (Golden) gundlachi, 9/2/2022. This was Setophaga petechia gundlachi, now called Mangrove Warbler gundlachi.

But this is not Yellow Warbler, so that should be irrelevant.

In any event, Reconcile does not pick up that sighting as one that needs reconciling. But I think it should. It's not Yellow Warbler (Golden) gundlachi anymore. It has remained Yellow Warbler (Golden) gundlachi in my database.

I did the reconciling for Northern Yellow Warbler to American Yellow Warbler, and all is fine now, I guess, on that.

Regarding the Yellow Warbler sightings...

This is a screenshot of the Reconcile report you sent me.

• The S. p. gundlachi was auto xfer'd to AviList. Nothing to do there. That same sighting will show under Clements or AviList.
• This report also shows that you have S. aestiva with a Common Name of "Northern Yellow Warbler" in your database. There is no S. aestiva in Clements 2024.
  Clements 2024 has
  • S. petechia and many ssp, including S. p. aestiva
  • This tells me you must have manually split this warbler in BD. That is ok and BD is designed to support that.
  • Since you manually split this, the Reconcile wizard does not recognize any probable choices. All you need to do is to simply assign them to the correct Taxon in AviList.
    In this case, probably S. aestiva - American Yellow Warbler.

Posted by: @magmatic

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My Hooded Crow now shows as Hooded Crow (Hooded) cornix. Seems like that should be Carrion Crow cornix. Why does it not show as that?

Regarding the Carrion Crow...

This is auto-xfer'd to AviList as you had the sighting at the subspecific taxon level. This was a lump and ssp's generally auto-xfer on Reconcile. If you had the Sighting at the species level in Clements, then you would have had to manually choose which taxon to move the Sighting to in AviList.

When you say "My hooded crow now shows as hooded crow cornix", that has to be because you are using Clements 2024 to view the sighting. View the sighting using AviList 2025, and you should see Carrion Crow cornix as the common name.

Posted by: @magmatic

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I did try the AI prompts, but the response probably just confused me.

I understand. If you don't have a lot of experience with AI ChatBots, that can happen. Simply carry on a conversation with the ChatBot to find out anything you want to know. Pro Tip: the free version of each is not nearly as good as the paid version.

Posted by: @magmatic

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But, that Clements 2024 and AviList 2025 csv is a great thing. A non-documented feature?

Sorry about that one. It was a last minute thought. I did post about that file here in the forums a time or two when similar questions arose. I definitely should have made it more obvious.

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Let me know if I can assist further please.

On S. aestiva. OK, I must have confused things somehow.

On Hooded/Carrion Crow. I must have been using the wrong (or both) taxonomies when I pulled up the sightings.

But I still see a puzzle. With Clements I have one sighting for Hooded Crow (Hooded) cornix and one for Carrion Crow. I don't know why I would have a Clements Carrion Crow.

With Avilist I have one sighting that changed to Carrion Crow cornix. And one sighting that remained Carrion Crow. Somehow, the latter did not get converted. Maybe I should just manually change it to Carrion Crow cornix and be done with it.

Hi Dave,

Posted by: @magmatic

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But I still see a puzzle. With Clements I have one sighting for Hooded Crow (Hooded) cornix and one for Carrion Crow. I don't know why I would have a Clements Carrion Crow.

With Avilist I have one sighting that changed to Carrion Crow cornix. And one sighting that remained Carrion Crow. Somehow, the latter did not get converted. Maybe I should just manually change it to Carrion Crow cornix and be done with it.

I cannot answer the question as to why you have a Carrion Crow (at the species level) sighting, other than you must have added it at some point. You can delete it if you don't feel it is correct, and only keep the subspecific Carrion Crow cornix sighting now in AviList. 

Sometimes it is hard for me to answer these questions as I don't see how you are looking at these sightings: e.g. which tax lists are chosen, which feature you are using, what your settings are, etc. So, I am just giving best probably guess.

No need to change it from the specific level to the subspecific level unless it is a valid sighting. If invalid, simply delete it.

Let me know if I can assist further.

I have two separate sightings. One for Hooded Crow (Hooded) cornix; one for just plain Carrion Crow. The first sighting got changed to Carrion Crow cornix. The Reconcile function did not do anything with the plain Carrion Crow. I guess it did not need to do anything since it was already Carrion Crow.

Why using Clements it says Carrion Crow and not Hooded Crow, I don't know. My solution is to just manually change it to Carrion Crow cornix because that is what I think it should be.

It's just one of those things.

Hi Dave,

Posted by: @magmatic

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I have two separate sightings. One for Hooded Crow (Hooded) cornix; one for just plain Carrion Crow. The first sighting got changed to Carrion Crow cornix. The Reconcile function did not do anything with the plain Carrion Crow. I guess it did not need to do anything since it was already Carrion Crow.

Exactly. This was a lump from Hooded Crow to Carrion Crow. 

The sightings for any Hooded Crow subsp got moved directly to their corresponding ssp. in Carrion Crow. 

Only any sightings you may have had at the specific level of Hooded Crow would need to be reconciled by you. The choices would be Carrion Crow (the species), or one of the two former Hooded Crow sspp.

Posted by: @magmatic

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Why [sic; presumably When] using Clements it says Carrion Crow and not Hooded Crow, I don't know. My solution is to just manually change it to Carrion Crow cornix because that is what I think it should be.

If it says Carrion Crow when using Clements, that is because Clements has both Hooded and Carrion Crows defined. But AviList only has Carrion Crow, as Hooded was lumped into Carrion. (see screenshot below from spreadsheet)

That same sighting will show as Carrion Crow in either Clements or AviList. 

No need to assign the sighting to the subspecific level unless you want to.

Have you completed the Reconcile yet Dave? How did it go? Gain or lose lifers?

Take care.

I didn't know I had a Carrion Crow. I had it life list disabled, so it hasn't been affecting my reports. I guess I just leave it.

Yes, I finished the reconcile from Clements 2024 to Avilist 2025. Yes, I did lose 2 lifers, as you can see from the reports.